Subject: NEWS: Historians vs. Disney?
From: H-Civwar Co-moderator Peter Knupfer:
"Historians Declare War on Disney Theme Park," by Mike Feinsilber, AP
correspondent, adapted from _Topeka Capital-Journal_, Thursday May 12, 1994:
David McCullough, president of the Society of American Historians, has begun
a campaign to prevent the Walt Disney Co. from building a Civil War theme
park near Manassas Battlefield in Virginia. At a press conference,
McCullough charged Disney with mounting a "blitzkrieg," a "sacrilege" that
would create "synthetic history by destroying real history." According to
Feinsilber, McCullough claimed that no historian supports Disney's plans who
"is not on the payroll of the Disney company in one way or another." The
article indicates that Eric Foner and James Oliver Horton have been hired by
Disney as consultants.
McCullough announced the creation of Project Historic America, a group of 30
historians and writers (including Shelby Foote, James McPherson, C. Vann
Woodward, and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.) that would try to persuade Disney to
go elsewhere. The park would be constructed on farmland 35 miles west of
Washington, a few miles from the battlefield. According to Feinsilber:
"McCullough said Disney's park would generate urban sprawl, ruining the
countryside that George Washington surveyed and endangering 16 Civil War
battlefields within an hour's drive. 'Would we allow the construction of an
amusement park at Normandy Beach?' he asked. 'In the name of jobs, would we
make splinters of Mount Vernon?'"
Virginia Gov. George Allen defended Disney's plans, arguing that history is
one of the best ways to attract tourists. The state legislature has
appropriated $160 million toward the project. The article contains no
comments from the Disney organization.
Any comments from H-CivWarriors on this?
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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 14:53:53 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney (cont'd)
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "HAMBURGER, SUSAN"
The story about Disney near Manassas broke just before we moved from
Virginia to Pennsylvania. I was, and am, appalled at the typical Disney
underhandedness at optioning land through third parties to keep the prices
down (as they did in Orlando, Florida) and then announcing they would build
a history theme park. As residents of Virginia, we were given no warning
nor choice; it became a fait accompli. The argument of bringing in jobs is
a sham; look at the types of jobs them parks generate: ticket takers,
groundskeepers, popcorn sellers--not exactly living wage positions in one
of the most expensive areas of Virginia. Why do we need a Disneyfication
of history when we have the real thing throughout the state. The money
George Allen and the legislature are offering to Disney and the concessions
they are making in terms of roads and infrastructure could better be spent
in other needed areas of the state's economy. Why not support the existing
historic sites with those funds? Provide jobs for historians, archivists,
archaeologists, museum curators, tour guides, etc. to preserve the history of
the Commonwealth rather than more fast-food minimum wage deadend drudgery? I
opposed Disney in Virginia when I lived there and I oppose it now.
Sue Hamburger
Manuscripts Librarian
Special Collections Dept.
W342 Pattee Library
Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802
814/865-2067
e-mail: sxh@psulias.psu.edu
=======================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 16:50:33 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
From: David.Bosse%um.cc.umich.edu@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 16:54:30 EDT
Members of this list who are intrigued by Peter Knupfer's posting on
the proposed Disney theme park near Manassas, VA should contact the
Association for the Preservation of Civil War Sites (P.O. Box 1862
Fredericksburg, VA 22402, (703) 371-1860). Their newsletter, HALLOWED
GROUND, has followed the debated from the beginning. APCWS is a dynamic,
effective organization that, in my opinion, deserves the support of
Civil War enthusiasts and scholars.
David.Bosse@um.cc.umich.edu
=======================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:36:34 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
From: Jean Spradlin-Miller, JMILLER%prime.mhsl.uab.edu@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: 17 May 94 21:06:02 CDT
I, too, was appalled when I first heard of Disney's plans. That area of
Virginia and Western Maryland is one of my favorite places. Like McCullough,
all I could visualize was urban sprawl and all the headaches that go with it
. . . hotels and motels, fast-food restaurants, and all the tourist traps,
not to mention the god-awful traffic mess. I do hope that those responsible
will reconsider their decision!
Jean Spradlin-Miller
jmiller@prime.mhsl.uab.edu
=======================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:39:04 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
From: Graham Dozier, GrahamD477%aol.com@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 23:39:23 EDT
NO DISNEY -
I am a Virginia resident and am very upset with Governor Allen's position on
this issue. He claims that history is one of Virginia's biggest tourist
draws. I agree. But the REAL history is what draws people, not some silly
plastic version of our past. If people want to see a Civil War battlefield
then they should drive to an actual one. As everyone knows there are a bunch
in Virginia. If people want history they should go to Richmond, Petersburg,
or Williamsburg. Why settle for fake images when the atmosphere of the state
breathes history. Governor Allen sees jobs and votes that's all. I am
ashamed of his misguided views. Once a site is developed any historic value
it had is gone forever. That's worth thinking about.
Graham Dozier
=======================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 13:40:54 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 06:44:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Stuhlreyer
I must also echo my opposition to the Disney project. Having only lived
in the Washington area for 9 months I've thoroughly enjoyed all the
historic sites and battlefields in the area. Unfortunately, one doesn't
have to look hard to see that the "normal" urban growth of the area has
been to the detriment of many sites, particularly around Manassas and
Fredericksburg. This is perhaps unavoidable. Disney is absolutely
avoidable. Completely apart from the Disneyfied view of history they will
certainly foist on young and old alike, this would be a terrible mistake.
I for one am a bit turned off by the wax museums and abominable steel tower at
Gettysburg. What would a Disney amusement park do to the area around
Haymarket and Manassas? Go to Antietam, MD or Yorktown, VA to see the
contrast, beautiful country with well preserved battlefields. If you have
access to it, the Washington Post Magazine had an interesting article on
the subject written by an American University professor (I'm sorry the name
escapes me and the paper is out with the trash). Keep Mickey Mouse
history out of America's historic heartland!
Tom Stuhlreyer
Bowie, MD
=======================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 13:45:41 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
From: Jennifer Lyon, jennie%paxman.safb.af.mil@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 13:12:03 -0500 (CDT)
I am against the park also. Not only will it ruin the area (which is
already bad enough....With the number of other amusement type parks within
a relatively close drive (1-2 hours), there's no need for another one.
Second, as others have posted, considering the expense to live in the
D.C. area, are low-paying (relatively speaking) part-time or seasonal jobs
worth it? Yes, X number of jobs may be created, but what will be the real
impact to the local economy from those jobs.
Enough Civil War and other Virginia history has gone by the wayside
because of "progress." Look at the Richmond area...large chunks of the 7-days
battlefields (If I'm remembering correctly) are gone forever, destroyed by
shopping centers and subdivisions. There is a limit to progress...
Enough said...
--jennifer (jennie@paxman.safb.af.mil)
=======================================================================
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 13:46:34 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
From: Nancy Bainter, bainter%esdsdf.dnet.ge.com@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 13:33:02 EDT
My ancestors fought in the Civil War. I cannot think of a more un-befitting
tribute to them than to trivialize their sacrifice by the creation of
a theme park! Have Americans become so brain-dead that they can only
conceptualize the magnitude of the war through multi-media hype? What
has happened to our imaginations? Is it too much TV? Not enough
reading? Laziness? God help us....
Nancy Bainter
bainter@esdsdf.dnet.ge.com
=======================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:17:56 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 21:19:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: peter c holloran
To whom may we write about this? How can Civil War historians make an
effective protest? Do we all boycott Disney products? Any concrete
suggestions, please?
Peter Holloran
=======================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:18:44 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 08:35:04 -0500 (EST)
From: ANDREW ROWDEN
I must also voice my discontent to the Disney threat to Virginia and
American history. It is bad enough to have a rather inaccuate, if not
twisted and reworked, showing of "history" from Hollywood. I feel, in my
humble opinion, that history (especailly that of the American Civil War)
will be trivialized and will be reworked to fit what ever image Disney and its
advertisers desire. It may become a situation of what ever sells will be
"history". I have nightmares of Mickey and Donald wearing the blue and
grey. Not only is this disrespectful for generations past but also a great
loss of historic sites and preservation to the present generation and to
those to come. Once a historic site is lost, it is gone forever.
Where could one write to in order to show support in stopping the Mouse?
Andrew Rowden
arowden@crassus.onu.edu
=======================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:21:10 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 08:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jamie Adams
Some unrelated observations for this Disney discussion. As background
(and to help you determine my biases), I live and pay taxes in
Fairfax County, about 25 miles from the proposed site. I am a Life
Member of the Association for the Preservation of Civil War Sites
(APCWS) and I am neutral to mildly in favor of the Disney project for
reasons that have little to do with history or battlefield
preservation.
First, a minor quibble:
Jennifer Lyon (jennie%paxman.safb.af.mil@KSUVM.KSU.EDU) said on Wed,
18 May 1994
...With the number of other amusement type parks within
a relatively close drive (1-2 hours), there's no need for another one.
I don't think this statement is correct. On a bad day, driving into
Washington is a two hour drive. I don't know whether the error is
misinformation, a difference in the definition of "amusement type
parks" or the mistaken assumption that driving in this area for two
hours might actually cover 130 miles. I can only recall one
amusement type park within two hours (but then I take my kids to
battlefields, anyway ).
Next:
The APCWS was mentioned previously. They have been hired as short
term consultants by Disney for historical and preservation issues
dealing with the project. As a result, the opponents of the project
are using phrases like "sold out" and "sleeping with the enemy" when
talking about the APCWS. I disagree and think APCWS can retain its
integrity and independence, but readers of this list should know that
there is controversy concerning APCWS and Disney.
Finally:
At present there are plans to build a race track on the core of the
Brandy Station battlefield. The plans have been approved by the
Culpeper County Board of Supervisors. Many of the arguments against
Disney also apply at Brandy Station (which is within an hour's
drive of Disney). Unlike Disney, the racetrack will be built on a
battlefield. Perhaps some of you who are opposed to Disney might be
willing to help preserve Brandy Station. I'd start with the APCWS.
Association for the Preservation of Civil War Sites
P.O. Box 1862
Fredericksburg, VA 22402
(703) 371-1860
Jamie Adams
jadams@cap.gwu.edu
=======================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 11:18:49 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 10:16:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Peterson, SPETERSON%EXODUS.VALPO.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
I hope this is a helpful suggestion to Peter's request for an audience to his
Disney objections. I know the news service carries a list titled
"rec.arts.disney" which many disney employees at various levels read
frequently. They may cooperate with some contacts to lodge your complaints.
Steve Peterson
========================================================================
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 17:06:08 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 12:07:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Cole"
As a Floridian who has visited the Disney complex on many occasions, and
whose wife was born in the community nearest the "World" (Kissimmee) many
years B.D. (Before Disney), I would like to share with Virginians and
historians alike some observations. One need only examine the highway
corridors (US 92 and I-4) to understand what "development" means. Masses
of resort hotels and motels are one thing; miles and miles of
bumper-to-bumper traffic rolling past endless strips of fast-food joints
and tacky souveneir shops is another. It's your worst nightmare. But
the effect on the economy is so massive that resistance is difficult to
mount. It doesn't matter that many of the jobs generated are not exactly
space-age: the enormous revenues from resort, sales, and gasoline taxes
paid by tourists, to say northing of the money they spend, is too large
an infusion into an economy for state and local politicians to resist.
In a climate where a state will go out and spend tens of millions of
dollars and offer every inducement imaginable in the way of tax breaks to
lure, say, a Mercedes factory to a small rural town, can you imagine
anyone saying no to Disney? Let's get real.
On the history side of it, based upon what you see at Magic
Kingdom and Epcot, I think that we are less likely to see Mickey and
Donald running around as Minute Men and Redcoats, or Yankees and Rebels,
than we are to get something like the Hall of Presidents or Epcot's
similar saga, in which complex matters are trivialized through
superficial treatment, and all is swathed in a sort of sachariny
sentimentality. I don't mean to sound unpatriotic, because I'm not, but
IMO, Disney (both now and in the past) would have done better to stick
with what he/it did best: charm us with Fantasia, Snow White, and Bambi,
and leave both history and other things to someone else.
Roger Cole
=======================================================================
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 11:08:55 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 13:19:55 EDT
From: Kurt Luginbihl
As usual there are few really good people to write too. Gov. Allen thinks
of the Disney project as a political and economic coup. I bet he calls it a
coop. :) You can try Sens. Robb and Warner of VA. as well as the state
Reps. for that district not to mention the county commish, Chamber of Congress
and many more. I am going to send every reply in this forum to Gov Allen.
I don't live in Virginia anymore but I pass through that part of NoVa 'bout
8 to 12 times a month. I would hate to see it destroyed by "The Mousecapades"
Not many people remember what the Orlando area was like in the 60s or 50s.
It was small town and rural and had beautiful orange groves everywhere. We
were visiting an Air Force Base South of there in the early 60s and I can
remember the orange frangrance wafting for an hour or so in the spring
evening heat. That old Rambler station wagon never smelled so good!
Fight the good fight!
H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
Scientific Computer Specialist
National Museum of Natural History
Washington D.C. 20560
=======================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 14:34:04 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 20:19:40 -0400
From: Donald Robert Shaffer
Folks,
Having just finally finished grading my last bunch of final exams, having
grown up in Orange County, California (site of Disneyland), and now being a
resident of Maryland, I thought I'd put in my two cents on the Disney America
debate.
Like most of the people who have posted on this issue thus far, I have deep
reservations about an historical theme park in Northern Virginia. Not just
because of the potential for ruining the area around the Bull Run battlefield
site, and because the potential for Disney being a poor choice to interpret
American history.
My big question is: who in Disney dreamed up the idea of a historical theme
park to begin with? I really think this is just from a pratical standpoint
a real _turkey_, and I am wondering whether Disney is heading for the same
sort of fiasco with Disney America that it is currently experiencing with
EuroDisney near Paris, France. Can anyone tell me how the Disney marketing
department came up with this idea? Frankly, I can't see who is going to
shell out over $100 (which is what a day at any Disney theme park costs for
an average size family), to take in Disney's interpretation of American
history, no matter how interestingly and accurately presented.
Frankly, I wonder whether Governor Allen and all the other Virginia politicians
are embracing the Disney mystique without considering the feasibility of the
project. Maybe, that is the argument we should be making with the politicians.
They may dismiss preservation and historical accuracy arguments, but I can't
see how they could dismiss an argument for sinking $160 million of Virginia
taxpayers money on an white elephant?
I eagerly await your thought on my thoughts ...
Cordially,
Don Shaffer
University of Maryland, College Park
dshaffer@wam.umd.edu
===================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 14:37:42 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney? (LONG)
date: Sat, 21 May 1994 10:43:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jamie Adams
Since I seem to be the closest thing to a proponent of Disney on this
list, I thought I'd add some more food for thought.
First, I believe that the land under consideration will be developed,
at the expense of the quality of life in Northern Virginia, regardless
of whether the Disney project gets built or not. I believe that is
going to happen and that I am helpless to stop it. My only option
would be to move, but that is only a temporary solution as anyone who
moved out to Haymarket 20 years ago will tell you. Remember that the
Prince William County supervisors, within the last year, were actively
seeking both a Legoland Park (which went to California) and the new
football stadium for the Washington Redskins (which looks like it will
be in Maryland).
Given my pragmatism concerning development, Disney is the best proposal
that I have seen for that area. It is so big that people have to deal
with the infrastructure questions up front. Under the usual
development cycle around here, upgrades to Interstate 66 would not
occur until 20 years into the project and that would be after 15 years
of traffic jams. Disney's buffer zones will make part of the
development less intense than it would be otherwise. Unlike other
developers, Disney has indicated its willingness to work with the
National Park Service to ease the impact on the battlefield park. It
is not clear, yet, whether Disney will operate at full capacity for 12
months of the year. I could go on, but my point is that, from here,
Disney is the lesser of two evils.
If you don't live in PW County or Virginia you probably do not have
much you can do politically to stop Disney. However since there will
be upgrades to a federal interstate, it is possible that pressure on
the federal government could be used to halt the project. Northern
Virginia is not meeting federal air quality regulations and some pretty
drastic measures have been proposed to deal with that. Under the
circumstances the federal response to any environmental impact
statements filed by Disney would be extremely important. I mention
this because some people have asked what they can do to stop Disney. I
seem to recall an armed conflict that came about in part because of
federal interference in the affairs of the states and so I trust that
those who advocate federal intervention will practice moderation .
It seems to me that the objections to Disney voiced here fall into two
broad categories - objection to the location and objection to the
content. I have addressed many of the location issues above and I hope
that people who object to the location will continue to monitor and
oppose development near battlefields regardless of whether it is a
high profile project like Disney or just another local developer's
strip mall.
I do have several comments for people who object to the content of the
Disney project. I assume that those people would object to the
project even if it were sited in a remote desert location that had been
fairly and honestly purchased from the Native American tribes that once
claimed the land. Presumably the content would be the only issue in
that case .
It seems to me that judgements about the content might be premature. It
is almost like reviewing a book based upon a draft outline of the first
chapter (that was only written to obtain funding, anyway). Disney has
lined up several good and well respected historians to provide advice.
If they actually get used for that purpose (as opposed to their
political use to splinter the opposition) then we will not have Mickey
and Goofy in Blue & Gray.
People who go to Seaworld know they are not seeing a realistic
portrayal of marine mammals. People who go to Busch Gardens (another
VA amusement park that is much more than two hours drive from here )
know they are not seeing the real Europe. People who see the animals
in the National Zoo know that, at best, they are getting just a glimpse
of the natural habitat. Why is it that everyone who visits Disney will
be too dense to realize that they are not seeing "the real thing"?
Real history is better than ersatz history but that is better (at least
if the previously mentioned advisors do their jobs) than nothing. I've
watched kids get an interest sparked in a subject from some
trivialized, inaccurate presentation. Wouldn't it be possible that
some of people who saw Disney would hunger for the real thing?
The American Civil War has been a fruitful area for non-professional
and non-academic "historians". This has led to much conflict between
the professionals on one side and the re-enactors, relic hunters and
ancestor worshippers (etc.) on the other. The discussions tend to
center around the quality of the work and the qualifications of the
worker, i.e. it is not good research unless it is published (or
supervised) by someone with a doctoral degree, in a peer reviewed
journal. To the extent that this stereotype of a professional is
accurate, it seems obvious why a professional would object to Disney.
I won't accuse anyone on this list of fitting that (deliberately
negative) stereotype but it does raise the issue that objection to
Disney is grounded in professional elitism and self-interest.
If you have made it this far, thank you. I have been deliberately
provocative in response to "moderated boredom" but I do not intend any
personal attacks. If you feel you have been so attacked please accept
my apology in advance. These are my opinions today, and I reserve the
right to change them in the future .
Jamie Adams
jadams@cap.gwu.edu
===================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 14:49:30 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
From: H-Civwar Co-moderator Peter Knupfer
I appreciate the many and varied postings about this issue. My initial
posting about it was adapted from a brief AP report that did not provide
details about Disney's plans or the debate in Virginia about the project's
environmental impact (the latter being a strong subtext in our discussions).
I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that Disney will have a number of questions
to answer about urban sprawl, given federal regulations and that the park
would be located in an area densely populated with federal workers fleeing
the DC area.
I am curious about your opinions on the ways that Disney would be handling
historical issues in its park. Some of the replies to the list have
directly addressed that question, and I'd like to see more about it. I
don't know if Disney plans a Bull Run River Ride, and even if it did, I
doubt that people's understanding of what happened at Bull Run would be
piqued by such an attraction. I suspect that it wouldn't and that Disney
wouldn't be trying to. On the other hand, a series of displays and
attractions directly purporting to be instructive about Manassas or the
Northern Virginia theater would be a subject of concern to anyone who loves
history and wants to see it treated accurately. One remembers the great
dioramas painted in the 1880s and 90s about the Civil War, that became
traveling attractions for many years (and which are now themselves
considered rare historical artifacts).
This post is not in support of the project -- but I am wondering what you
have to say about the ways that a popular audience might indeed be informed
about Civil War history in this context. The National Park Service is under
a great resource strain, and if it wants to keep precious battlefields in a
frozen state into the foreseeable future, it might very well end up
supporting developments like this that drain some of its visitors into
places that are built to handle the crowds. What do you think?
Peter Knupfer
H-Civwar Co-moderator
pknupfer@ksu.ksu.edu
===================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 14:35:12 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Fri, 20 May 94 12:09:41 CDT
From: epperson%math.uah.edu@KSUVM.KSU.EDU (James F. Epperson) (Mathematical
Sciences Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
I've avoided contributing to the Disney discussion because I don't
really have strong opinons on the matter. I don't live in Virginia
and I am not at all familiar with the details of the proposed park.
That last phrase is, I think, the key issue. Any proposed endeavor can
be done well (the Marshall Plan, certain brands of bourbon) or it can
be done poorly (Edwin Bearss's Vicksburg trilogy, certain other brands of
bourbon). I don't know enough about what Disney proposes to do, and how
they propose to do it, to evaluate the matter. I can conceive a
presentation in which tourists are entertained and informed, in a somewhat
superficial manner, about aspects of American history, and then are
encouraged or inspired to go to the appropriate sites to learn and
see more. On the other hand, I can also conceive of a presentation
in which the tourists leave thinking they have seen The Truth and
deciding there is no need to go visit Gettysburg or Valley Forge or
Monticello.
I suspect Roger Cole is right in his description of what we will get. I
wish Disney would be more specific in the details. Maybe they have
and I just haven't seen it.
Jim Epperson
epperson@math.uah.edu
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 13:21:49 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Mon, 23 May 94 16:33:45 EST
From: Robert Spore
Subject: Disney's America
Jamie Adams made several excellent points in favor of the Disney
project. Although I have misgivings over Disney's presentation of
history, Disney may well be the best development option for the area. As
the growth in Northern Virginia progresses west along I-66, development
in the Haymarket area is inevitable. The commuter rail line already
links Fredericksburg and Manassas with D.C. Are endless residential
developments and shopping malls prefereable to Disney? The Disney
presentations to the Virginia General Assembly were certainly lacking in
details of how history will be presented. The scale model of the park
also lacked detail. Prominent features were the Monitor and the Virginia
maneuvering in a lagoon, and a large roller coaster in the center of the
park. It is certainly promising that Disney is seeking the advice of the
APCWS. The Disney introduction to history could spark renewed interest
in American history. Remember Davy Crockett, Johnny Tremain, Zorro,
Swamp Fox, and many other television and motion picture successes?
Continuing arguments in the Richmond newspaper has already led to
charges of "elitism" from the Disney supporters (including the
governor).
Robert B. Spore Virginia Community College System
TELEPHONE: 804-225-2532 FAX: 804-225-2531
Internet Address: SOSPORR@VCCSCENT.BITNET
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 13:23:07 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
From: "JOHN URSCHEL, WRIGHT STATE UNIVERSITY"
Subject: MANASSAS VS. THE MOUSE
Thanks to Jamie Adams for writing the message I intended to write and
for doing a much better job than I would have.
Since 1985, when a trip to Gettysburg sparked my CW interest, I have
spent every vacation visiting or looking for CW sites. We drove 700+ miles
last weekend to visit Chickamauga/Chattanooga again. (Now that I have proven
myself certifiable, my points.)
Disney assures the preservation of Manassas National Battlefield Park.
Isn't NoVa Community College right next door to Henry Hill already? Stopping
Disney won't stop the sprawl.
But Disney (and the Disney millions & millions) will have a vested
interest in Manassas NBP. They will become the leading opponent of any
threat to the park. (Sudley Springs Ford? That would be under parking
lot #12.)
And frankly, I don't care how Disney interprets Manassas/Bull Run.
Let Disney make their millions selling miniature Springfields and forage
caps to America's toddlers. Maybe they'll grow up caring whether Manassas
survives or not. Had someone made history entertaining to the masses in the
past maybe we could visit Nashville, Franklin, etc. today.
Isn't Columbia's Dr. Eric Foner a consultant? Will he sell out real
history for a few Disney dollars?
I'd rather see our noted historians asking Disney
how they can help make it better rather than fighting a losing battle
against pseudo-history. (It's everywhere if you hadn't noticed.)
This is HISTORY + MONEY. Think of the possibilities.
John Urschel
Wright State U.
Fairborn, Ohio
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 13:24:23 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 16:44:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "HAMBURGER, SUSAN"
One of the problems I have with Disney doing history in Virginia and the
blend of reality and fantasy is their presentation of history. We do know
the difference between seeing zoo animals and marine mammals in habitats
and recognizing that this is not their natural habitat. When Disney
fabricates Main Street U.S.A., it is not the way it was, but how they'd
like us to think it was, so clean and pretty without the manure and garbage
of reality. I remember seeing Disney movies as a child in the 1950s and
thought that their version of "The Alamo" and "Davy Crockett" was
historical truth. Now that I know better, I don't want to see any more
generations fed the cleaned up Disney version of history, especially
plunked down in the midst of the real thing.
People go to Disney World in Orlando, hopefully knowing it's all
Fantasyland, and a big amusement park. I worry about blurring the line
between "what is real and what is not," as Bob Dylan once said. Why would
anyone want to spend $100 at Disney Virginia to see history they could
spend from nothing to $1-3 for the real thing at Manassas, Fredericksburg,
The Wilderness, and New Market, to name a few? Despite the distance from
Northern Virginia (NOVA) to Kings Dominion 20 miles north of Richmond, and
Busch Gardens and Water Country U.S.A. outside Williamsburg, do we really
NEED another amusement/theme park in Virginia?
Just as Legoland and the football stadium went elsewhere, why
settle for Disney as the least objectionable? Why accept development of
any kind as inevitable? Why give millions of state dollars to a private
corporation? If Disney does build in NOVA, why not make them foot the
entire bill? I also agree with another poster to this list, who in Disney
thinks this will be a successful enterprise coming on the heels of the
EuroDisney fiasco? Too many people blindly jump on the economic
development/jobs bandwagon before seeing what swamp it is sinking into.
One way we might discourage Disney Virginia is to write to the company
boycotting their products such as their films, books, toys, and theme parks
. Hit them economically and they may think twice about alienating their
customers with the money which makes them so successful.
Sue Hamburger
Manuscripts Librarian
Pennsylvania State University
sxh@psulias.psu.edu
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:15:18 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 14:29:22 -0400
From: ae941%yfn.ysu.edu@KSUVM.KSU.EDU (P. W. Carlton)
For Jamie and Peter, in particular.
I appreciated your somewhat more temperate remarks on the Disney Theme Park
issue. Most of the others seemed a bit hysterical to me. The comments about
"good history" vs. "bad history" are interesting. However, the painting of the
Disney Corporation as "bad guys" seems a bit overdrawn. I heard a presentation
by one of their folks a few weeks ago. The planning seemed carefully done. The
exhibits (attractions) were quite acceptable. The Civil War portion of the park
represents only a small percentage of the entire layout. The approach they are
taking, that is seeking the advice of trained historians, offers the promise of
a decent, if superficial (who defines?) portrayal. The physical layout is both
attractive and sensitive to the environment. The site is sufficiently remote
from various highways that it is likely they will be able to avoid presenting
a "carnival-like atmosphere" to passersby on Rt. 66 (the major freeway going
from East to West. I was impressed by the sensitivity of the official doing the
presentation and am convinced that they will do their best to avoid "definling
(once more) "defiling" the landscape. So far as the opposition is concerned,
those of us who have homes in the area have found it amusing to watch the
"horse set" and "those who oppose any change whatever as a matter of
principle" carrying out
their usual activities. They are a fascinating group. In sum, there is
likelihood that Disney will have a positive impact in the area, both
economically and
educationally. While no one suggests that "true history" will be purveyed, it
is well within reason to suggest that the young, in particular, may find their
imaginations piqued by what is likely to be a high quality attraction. Disney
plans, incidentally, to have the National Park Service set up a booth on the
grounds to advise tourists on how to visit historic sites in the vicinity.
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:16:04 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 24 May 94 14:58:42 EDT
From: "Chris Willis"
Having lived in Gettysburg, PA for a number of years while in college, I
feel I can add to this. Anyone who has visited these hallowed grounds
lately knows that there are already Disney-esque qualities involved in
the tourist trade around these places. There is the Cyclorama "In
stereo Sound", there is the Wax Museum, there is the Civil War Dinner
Theatre, there is the Cassette Auto Tour, there are guides and busses
(single and Double Decker also with "stereo sound"), and resturants
that serve Civil War Food. Add a few rides and you have yourself a
theme park.
I personally would like to see the Battlefield Societies pull away from
such tourist trade, but since we go with the money, I don't think that
Disney would be such a bad thing. I just can't look at this particular
issue from a studied acedemic standpoint because I have been there
and seen what is going on. The children (and fathers) in Union and
Confederate hats carrying "cap" muskets.
Chris Willis
Gettysburg College Class of '93
cwillis@bfc.com
===================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:16:56 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 15:50:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Cole"
> Disney may well be the best development option for the area. As
> Are endless residential
> developments and shopping malls prefereable to Disney?
> Robert B. Spore Virginia Community College System
>
As I remarked in an earlier posting, our experience here in Florida is
that you will get BOTH, and the former more quickly because of the
latter. My other point was that, given the economic impact, Disney is
probably irresistable if truly determined, as it appears to be. As
someone else remarked in another posting, the better course may be one of
working to assure that Disney directs its considerable resources to
insuring that it builds the best quality product (given its limitations)
that can be expected.
Roger Cole
===================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:02:15 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 17:02:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: Steve Tilson
OK, OK, I can't resist it any more, I'm going to put in my humble two
cents worth on Manassas vs. the Mouse. I will be brief.
-Yes, my gorge rises at the thought of Disney-version Bull Run. However,
as anybody knows who has seen northern Virginia in the last decade or two,
it's a little late to be upset about the "spoiling" of any pristine
historical sites in that area. It also looks to be equally late to be
upset about this anyway, you can bet that if money has already been set
aside, this is as close to the proverbial "done deal" as you can get.
-On a lighter note, I somehow can't help but smile a bit at the
(virtual) spectacle of all us good Civil Warriors up in arms at the
continuing triumph of the imaginary rodent who may just be the perfect
personification of Yankee capitalism, after all.
Steve Tilson
tilsons@csn.org
===================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:03:30 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 19:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: peter c holloran
Could someone post names and addresses for letters complaining about the
potential damage to historic sites by Disney?
Peter Holloran
New England Historical Association
===================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:05:06 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 1:19:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bryan P. Howard, BPH3213%ZEUS.TAMU.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Subject: History, Disney, and Reality....
I have been watching the comments fly about how Disney is perceived to
plan to present history, when I see little fact to back up the accusations.
Perhaps we should learn more of the plan before launching a full scale assault?
I have also noted much concern about presenting "reality". One recent comment
struck a cord. "When Disney fabricates Main Street U.S.A., it is not the way
it was but how they'd like us to think it was, so clean and pretty without
the manure and garbage of reality" (Sue Hamburger 5-24-94). Where I might ask
do we EVER present history as reality? I have worked as a Park Ranger at
several Civil War battlefields in Virginia. All are now clean and neat, the
grass nicely mowed, the grounds cared for as best as possible. Where is the
mud, the stumps from cutting breastworks, the stench of rotting flesh after
the battle? No, this is not reality.
I earned a graduate degree in Historical Archaeology at the College of
William and Mary in Williamsburg. I wonder how those on this list feel about
Colonial Williamsburg? Personally, I loved it there, but do they come close
to historical reality? No. It is no more than a glorified "Main Street U.S.A."
Historical reality is not possible. We simply cannot recapture the entire
experience/environment of the past. With this in mind, maybe we should work
with projects that attempt to present history to the "masses", not against
them. I've seen the development in northern Virginia. If it isn't Disney, it
WILL be a mini-mall or 7-11 sooner or later.
Williamsburg is a good effort at present the past to the present. It is also
a major tourist attraction. Perhgaps people WILL flock to a theme park which
offers history which is deemed acceptable to most historians, as I presume
Colonial Williamsburg to be. No, Disney won't have the restoration potential
using an actual site that Williamsburg (or Jamestown Settlement or Plymouth
Plantaion) has, but it CAN possibly be a tool to spark real interest in
history, as long as historians work with Disney, and don't shun them.
Bryan P. Howard Dept. of Anthropology, Texas A&M University
BPH3213@VENUS.TAMU.EDU
===================================================================
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 14:42:30 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 14:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "HAMBURGER, SUSAN"
I certainly don't expect Disney or any battlefield parks to provide the
rotting flesh, mud, and stench so we can approximate the experience.
However, there are ways of presenting history and historical sites that
don't leave people thinking that paved streets and brightly-painted houses
were the norm. A good example of capturing the feel is the Johnstown Flood
NHP in Pennsylvania. The site of the dam break cannot convey the horror of
what happened downstream but the film, using historical footage and
reenactment, coupled with the visitor's center 3D tangle of tree roots,
roofs, and bodies comes close.
I enjoy Williamsburg but am well aware that many of the buildings are
re-creations and relocations, Rockefeller's 1930s theme park sans rides.
History is not perfect. I just don't buy into the fatalism that Disney is
a fait accompli or else we'll get strip shopping centers. Leave Virginia
some dignity and integrity. As a New Jersey native, I deplore the
Jerseyfication of other states.
As a cynic, I question whether Disney will voluntarily point tourists
toward the real thing outside the park's boundaries. Will they present
history in a way that will pique interest or will the theme park become
just another raft ride? I could go on all afternoon but I'll spare y'all
the diatribe. I'm tired of the crass commercialism and unbelievable money
grubbing in the name of private property, profit motive, and progress. I'm
off to Canada for the weekend.
Sue Hamburger
===================================================================
Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 11:15:38 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Disney vs. Historians?
Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 08:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jamie Adams
On Tue, 24 May 1994 19:40:24, peter c holloran
said:
Could someone post names and addresses for letters complaining about the
potential damage to historic sites by Disney?
Peter Holloran
New England Historical Association
-----
I'm tempted to cynically reply that no such letters are necessary because no
such sites have been identified .
I heard a news report (May 25) that said archeologists hired by Disney had
identified between 10 and 20 potential historical sites on the property. As
I recall, one was a graveyard dating from the 1800's, one related to 18th.
century Europeans and the remainder predated European settlement in the
area. The significance of these sites is currently unclear, but note that
none of them seem to have any Civil War significance. I expect the plan
will be to glean as much information from these sites as possible before
they are paved over. The graveyard, of course, will be relocated. If any of
these sites are truly significant, I expect that Disney could incorporate
the site into the park itself.
Please note that, to the best of my knowledge, these sites are currently
unprotected by Federal or Virginia law. At best, they are protected by the
purchase option agreement between Disney and the landowner. If Disney fails
to exercise its option to purchase the property and all rights revert to the
current owner, the owner can, with impunity, destroy the site. There are
several notorious cases of property owners in the Fredericksburg and
Richmond areas deliberately destroying Civil War era entrenchments on their
property because the land owners were afraid that the entrenchments would
impair their ability to sell the property to a developer. Til Hazel (local
developer) was still building (hence "destroying") on the Manassas property
("taken" by an act of Congress) up until the day that the law took effect.
Those acts of historical vandalism were and still are, legal. If anyone on
this list feels strongly enough about historic sites on (emphasis "on") the
Disney property to use that as an objection to Disney then I beg you to
monitor the sites whether Disney is built or not.
Jamie Adams
jadams@cap.gwu.edu
=====================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 09:41:20 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: FYI: "Disney's America" Addresses
Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 09:41:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jamie Adams
Disney's America
14540 John Marshall Highway
Gainesville, VA 22065
Piedmont Environmental Council
P.O. Box 460
Warrenton, VA 22186
Protect Historic America
1211-504 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20036
Civil War News
Route 1, Box 36
Tunbridge, VT 05077
The above addresses were gleaned from the June 1994 issue of Civil War News,
a publication that I highly recommend for its coverage of contemporary Civil
War issues such as preservation, archaeology, reenacting, movies, television
and books. Subscriptions are $24/year.
The Disney address is for Disney's local presence. The Piedmont
Environmental Council (PEC) is currently the most organized and vocal
opponent of Disney. They are more concerned with environmental and quality
of life issues than with history. The cynics have observed that the quality
of life that PEC is most concerned with is that quality enjoyed by the rich
and reclusive residents of Virginia's Horse Country. Protect Historic
America is the group of historians (James McPherson, C. Vann Woodward, et.
al.) that have organized to protect the entire Piedmont region of Northern
Virginia, especially 22 Civil War battlefields. I hope they remember Brandy
Station.
Jamie Adams
jadams@cap.gwu.edu
=====================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 09:43:06 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: FYI: "Disney's America" Discussion on H-AMSTDY
Moderator's Note (PBK): H-Civwarriors interested in extended discussion of
this issue might wish to subscribe to H-Amstdy@uicvm.uic.edu, where this
issue has heated up the satellites for the past week or so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 10:33:53 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Sat, 28 May 94 21:21:23 EDT
From: Dale Floyd, dfloyd%tmn.com@KSUVM.KSU.EDU (Dale Floyd)
In reply to John Urshel:
I definitely agree with you. I was the historian on the staff of the
Civil War Sites Advisory Commission and I feel that by fighting
Disney, people are defusing the need to fight to save the
battlefields. Brandy Station, Malvern Hill, Spring Hill and
others are in imminent danger. Lets put our energies toward
saving these battlefields.
Please be aware, these are my opinions only and not those of any
Government agency!
Dale E. Floyd
tmn.com
=====================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 10:43:01 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: QUERY: "Gettysburg" & Disney
From: "Brady, Mark"
In honor of Memorial Day, I finally rented Gettysburg. I thought is was a
good movie, my only complaint would have been I thought they should have
shown more of Hancock's ride infront of his troops. I had always thought
that was a dramatic prelude to Pickett's charge. However, it brought up two
questions that I wanted to see if anyone else had any thoughts about.
1) Disney vs. History: I watched the movie with my girlfriend, who is well
educated (BSEE). She was willing to see it (she had not heard of the
battle) and initially thought the Civil War was "in the 1800s or the early
1900s." Ironically, her birthday is July 3rd. Needless to say, she is
learning a lot of history from me, (I am going to take her to the actual
site in November) and I am learning about electricity and how it works. But
to my thought, Disney has the advantage over those historians that oppose
them in that the general public (no one on this list) has no real feel for
history and so will side with Disney most of the time. I am one of those
who felt that Disney already won the popular war for Haymarket. Have other
people encountered the same attitudes; either not knowing history, or not
caring about it? Or is this lack of knowledge common to Americans in
general, as I have heard from both Europeans and Japanese?
2) Chamberlin: Is there an autobiography of Joshua Chamberlin in print? If
not, is there a biography that someone could recommend. Given that he was a
professor at Bowdoin, he must have written something about his experiences
to get tenure after the war :-).
Thanks
Mark Brady
MBRADY@MSMAIL.HIS.TCH.TMC.EDU
Disclaimer:
The opinions in this message are strictly those of the author and do not
belong to Texas Children's Hospital, St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, the
Texas Heart Institute or any other sane entity.
============================================================================
Moderator's Footnote (PBK): For the past month or so, H-Amstdy has been
discussing "historical ignorance" and the "decline" of historical knowledge
-- interested subscribers might want to check that list's logs for more
comments on this subject.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 13:50:17 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 13:27:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Peterson, SPETERSON%EXODUS.VALPO.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
I happen to be a Disney stockholder and reviewed the 1993 annual report for the
comments Eisner made about the Disney Virginia project. I will reproduce them
here for your interpretations.
" Disney announced plans to develop a unique and historically detailed new,
Disney's America, to be located in Prince William County, Virginia, west of
Washington, D.C.
Chairman Michael Eisner said the new park will celebrate the nation's
richness of diversity, spirit and innovation. The new park, to be located on
1200 acres of a 3000 acre site, will differentiate itself from others in
subject matter and presentation, focusing on important historical events or
eras in the nation's past. The park is envisioned as an ideal complement to
the iternerary of guests visiting Washington's museums, monuments and national
treasures.
While the long-term plans are not final, Disney proposes to build
residences, hotels, a golf course and mixed-use development on that portion of
the land not devoted to park use. These projected facilities, like the park,
would be surrounded by greenbelts and open spaces for the benefit of the
environment and neighbors."
=====================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 14:28:39 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: Mickey and Stonewall
FYI: The June 6, 1994, issue of _Time_ magazine (the D-Day special
issue) includes an essay (last page of issue) by Charles Krauthammer on
the proposed Disney theme park near Manassas. The author sympathizes
somewhat with the fear of urban sprawl but takes a dimmer view of other
bases of opposition to the park. Krauthammer's bottom line to historians:
"Lighten up, guys."
I'm not sure I can agree with the essayist, but his views are worth
reading -- if only to see what an intelligent person not connected to
either group (pro or anti) is thinking.
My own view (shared by countless others, I'm sure) is that the
urban-sprawl issue is sufficient in itself to oppose Disney's project.
The sprawl will inevitably do violence to the Manassas site.
==============================
= Richard Lowe =
= Univ. of North Texas =
= fd78@jove.acs.unt.edu =
==============================
=====================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 12:25:07 -0500
Sender: Civil War History discussion list
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
From: "Brady, Mark"
Subject: RE: Mickey and Stonewall
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 94 08:23:00 PDT
Richard Lowe wrote:
"My own view (shared by countless others, I'm sure) is that the urban-sprawl
issue is sufficient in itself to oppose Disney's project. The sprawl will
inevitably do violence to the Manassas site."
While urban sprawl is an issue, I think that it is a minor one. I used to
live about 15minutes from Manassas, last time I drove from my parents house
to the Battlefield, it took about 45 minutes. My parents didn't move, its
just that things in Northern Virginia have gotten so crowded. Manassas
battlefield is completely surrounded by housing developments and edge
cities. The rest of the parks in the area are also overrun by local
developers, Wilderness comes to mind immediately. I think that the Disney
project would have very little impact on the Manassas battlefields because
the area is already so overdeveloped and expensive. That's one of the
reasons that I live in Houston, I pay for my house what I paid for my
efficiency in Washington.
I think that the real issue here is who controls the interpretation of
history and for what ends. I think that the professional historians feel,
and rightly so, that Disney will take events and actions that have an almost
sacred aura and trivialize the sacrifices made. My concern is we will see a
Hogan's Heroes type of presentation of the Civil War (Gettysburg: The
Comedy), so that it will have minimal meaning to the general public and no
moral value beyond light entertainment. That seems to be Disney's approach
to history (I remember that they were roundly criticized for their nature
films, especially the bit about lemmings jumping into the sea). Often bad
history makes good entertainment. Even if the park was moved to some other
"undeveloped" place in the United States, my fears about their treatment of
history would remain the same.
My 2 cents.
Mark Brady
MBRADY@MSMAIL.HIS.TCH.TMC.EDU
Disclaimer:
The opinions in this message are strictly those of the author and do not
belong to Texas Children's Hospital, St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, the
Texas Heart Institute or any other sane entity.
=====================================================================
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 1994 19:19:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nathan K. Moran, NKMORAN%MEMSTVX1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
I have been reviewing my messages for the past month and noticed some
complaint on the moderation of this list as being boring. I feel that
the moderation has kept the list informative and free of clutter. Keep
up the good work.
On another note I've also seen the debate on Disney's invasion of
Northern Virginia. My summer job is working as a Public Historian
and can see the conflict between education of the public and telling
the truth in regards to history. Many of the individuals who visit
my place of work have little idea of the civil war and what occurred.
I find that I have to tailor my presentations to my audience to reach
them regardless of educational level. This is a very complex task
even for a trained historian. The peril that Disney must be aware of
is that their company's goal of entertainment conflicts with the ideal
of educating the public.
Nathan K. Moran
Fort Pillow State Historic Area - Park Historian
University of Memphis - Part-time Instructor and Doctoral Student
nkmoran@msuvx1.memphis.edu
=====================================================================
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:29:38 -0500
From: H-Civwar Co-moderator Peter Knupfer
Subject: REPLY: Historians vs. Disney?
From: John Sloan, JohnS426%aol.com@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 11:01:15 EDT
HI all,
Short comment on Nathan Moran's excellent note about Disney etc. It is
unfortunate that entertainment and education all too often are allowed to be
in conflict. In my opinion it is also unfortunate but true that when such
conflict exists it is entertainment that is bound to win. Our efforts as
individuals interested in promoting the appreciation of real as opposed to
synthetic history (whether we are professionals or amateurs in the field) has
to be to remove or at least reduce this conflict as much as possible. It will
do no good to assume a superior attitude to the Disney's of the world and
look down our noses on their productions. Better to remain actively engaged
in improving the educational content of entertainment and the entertainment
content of education. Just a personal opinion, but one resulting not only
from experience as a teacher but more directly as a parent trying to instill
some appreciation for history in my own children and grand children.
John Sloan
![[Disney's America logo]](images/kasframe.gif)